Episode77: Learning to Say No: The First Brave Act of Building Your New Normal with Kathy Washburn
A people-pleaser's guide to saying no without guilt. Three practical scripts, one story about a boss who wouldn't take no, and why no is information, not rejection.
If you've ever said yes when every part of you wanted to say no, this episode is for you. Kathy opens Part 1 of the Building Your New Normal series with a personal story about a former boss who kept overriding her boundaries during one of the hardest seasons of her life, and what she learned about the difference between a reflexive yes and a real one.
Drawing on Kasia Urbaniak's concept of "the Smoosh" from her book Unbound, Kathy unpacks why saying no feels so loaded for high-achieving women who've spent a lifetime being agreeable enough to be liked and independent enough to be respected. She offers three practical "flavors" of no — the delay no, the clean no, and the relational no — that listeners can practice this week, plus this episode's twenty-seconds-of-insane-courage challenge.
In this episode, Kathy discusses:
How to say no without feeling guilty
People-pleasing recovery
Building healthy boundaries
Why high-achieving women struggle to say no
How small habits create lasting life change
Nervous system regulation and boundaries
Self-worth and self-leadership
Building your new normal
Emotional resilience after divorce
How to trust yourself again
Timestamps:
00:01 – Welcome & building your new normal
02:15 – Tiny choices shape your future
03:44 – Why learning to say no changes everything
03:58 – Kathy's painful "yes" story
07:57 – The power of the pause
08:06 – The "smush" between pleasing and authenticity
09:17 – Why "no" is information
09:53 – Practice instead of insight
11:13 – Three ways to say no
11:44 – The Delay No
13:02 – The Clean No
13:59 – The Relational No
14:52 – Lessons from an untethered season
16:05 – Twenty seconds of courage
17:27 – Proof your new normal is working
18:04 – Next week's challenge
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